| Points. | |
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Iceman - away- - Student |
I've heard that some just join classes to get points. Are we not suppose to join to learn something? This is an Academy not a competition. |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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Well, there are rules on the JA servers that have to be obeyed. Word.
To get back OnT, There are lots of people that are willing to rush to trials, but, believe me, thats useless. If u got the skill, u dont have to have the rank. simply keep it coming to you. not vice-versa. _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Hybrid-Halo - Ex-Student 
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It certainly isn't a competition among students, but we are all here to learn in order to improve our fighting abilities, whether or not we want to train our CTF or FFA skills, we are all here to improve. I think in this case it is a competition. If not with other players then with ourselves. We are here so we can eventually better the other players, are we not? _______________ Sith Sith Sith Sith Sith... This comment was edited by Hybrid-Halo on Mar 03 2003 04:09am. |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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I'd never force anyone to bow, or not to chat kill, or not to hit people when they fall down. Those are my beliefs and the beliefs of the academy, they are what we deem as being wrong. This sodesn't mean though that we should force our views onto the new players out on the public players. If I did, then when players where fighting they would most likely whine and complain about people breaking 'their' rules.
I'm all for the honour code and all, its what makes this game different, but I'd nvr force it upon anyone and say "this is the way to play, if you don't do ith this way then you're a lamer" cos thats jsut not right. I play this game the way I want, the academy just happens to fit in with my ideals  _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Archangel - Ex-Student 
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I love the feeling of helping someone improve and getting them to kick my arse though. Even though I'm getting beat, I helped that person to be able to beat me... its just an accomplishment. I love it... but thats me, and I'm off topic. _______________ A man asked me for a dollar, and I asked him what its for. He said "I have seen them". I said "ok its yours". |
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MINDofSIN - Student 
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Public: Pull, Backslash, RDFA
Eww... Duel servers and non force ones usually seem a bit better though. I love helping newer players and teaching them respect. You show them fancy stuff, tell them to bow, and they assume all the good players must be respectful. Unfortunately, they usually improve and kick my ass slightly after  _______________ Jedi Academy Holocron http://jaholocron.ryanmh.com/ Why should our government send our soldiers to foreign soil to protect freedom of speech, when our freedom of speech is being taking away everyday by the same government. This comment was edited by MINDofSIN on Mar 02 2003 05:07pm. |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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correct. this is also always quite nice about public servers.
but, to get back OnT again, I'd say that the points thingy is quite good, but dont mean too much. _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Archangel - Ex-Student 
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No doubt, I totally agree. I think some of the hardest people to play against are newbies. They are completely random and don't have set habits of what they will do in certain instances. They just do whatever randomly comes to them to do. If you play against people like that a lot you learn to expect anything at any time. I love it... kinda gettin off topic here I guess, but just a great way to train I think. You are learning something from them and hopefully they can learn something from you in the process also. _______________ A man asked me for a dollar, and I asked him what its for. He said "I have seen them". I said "ok its yours". |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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That was quite interesting m8. So you're a hux class fan are yah ? I'm more of a Zero man yourself, his classes are jsut so random and you have no idea what to expect. At the start he'll say "I want you to always be aware in case someone attacked you for no reason" then somewhere during the class he'd drop a timed mine next to you or something. Just a thought, praps Hux class regulars and Zero class regulars (plus any other trainers which have their own class of regulars)could have a little comp to see whose better (not in a competitive way, but it would be fun to see the trainers pit their minions against each other  )
I try to go to Zro's class every week, and my first thought is not 'I wanna learn this today, I wanna do this' and its most definately not 'Zero's seems like an easy doss class, it'll get me a point'. Its usually more along the lines of 'What am I going to learn today?' <<Notice the question| I have almost no doubt in my ability, I know alot and I've played for a long time, but thats not to say I can't still learn stuff of other skilled people. Even new members that have only had the game for 2 weeks still surprise me with some of their randomness, which many of the skilled duelists take for granted, with all their precision moves and waiting for certain situations to occur. Basically, in conclusion, if you're not sposed to be a knight you won't be a knight. N00bs rock on (don't knock em they are well fun to train, uncorrupt, without bad habbits, pure beings you can form in your effigy ) _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Archangel - Ex-Student
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There is one thing that has been overlooked in this post so far. There are people who learn from others and don't often attend classes. I have been with the academy since July of last year and honestly I only attended one or two classes until recently. I learned everything about the game from a combination of trial and error (playing around with things with kc and Nofrikinfun[JAS]) and dueling. I would duel people (l-rod namely) and watch them, learn things from them. Another way I would pick up things was just to talk to people. I remember the day I tried to learn some force dueling by getting reamed by DaMaGe over and over. I had fun, I got better. But if the points system would have been in effect at this time I would have gotten nowhere when it comes to ranking (even though that was when it was just students and trainers).
I mostly learned from talking to people and learning what I could though. The main reason I didn't take classes was because I would work almost every night and it was hard to catch a class at the right time. Luckily when they started the ranking system I moved up. I became a j-man and was working on becoming a knight when they started the point system. Since I was already a J-man I was assigned 12 points then. That left me needing to get 8 class points to have a chance at becoming a knight. This posed problems. What classes could I take that I would learn something in. I looked at the class list and realized that most of the classes offered deal with red stance, or basic things that I already knew. I was hoping to find some classes on the other stances but not many of out current trainers are profecient in those. So I needed to take at least 8 classes on things I would learn. I took those classes, got a couple force classes in because I'm still not that great with force. I took Hux's Old School Saber class (which I loved by the way). Then I took Nofrikinfuns Nofrikinstyle classes. I can honestly say I didn't learn anything in the first class. In the second one NFF and I learned something together (not a major thing, but a little discovery). The third class I did learn a couple little things. I kinda felt bad though. I took a class about the red stance and I already knew most of the things in it and got points for it. I am glad I learned a few things and a few new ways to train. And I did definatley train and pay attention during the classes therefore improving at least a little during them. I wasn't rude, I didn't interrupt when anyone was trying to teach, but I was a little bored at times. I did still pay attention anyway though. I guess I'm ranting, and kinda telling my lifes story here, but I'm bored so I'm typing. Just letting everyone know that there is another way to learn and advance your skills without taking classes. And if you have already done so and not gotten credit for it how are you supposed to earn 20 points worth of classes that you actually learned something in. So there are multiple views to this situation. I don't personally think there are enough classes for the advanced for someone who has played this game much to earn 20 points and actually learn something in every class. I know I wouldn't have learnt things in every class if it weren't for the 12 I recieved for my previous ranking to the point system. But, I did get the points and I am still attending a couple other classes because I have found a couple. I think there needs to be more focus on other stances than red in a few classes. I realize this would take a new trainer, or a knight like Chicka or Luke Skywalker to teach the class. But its something I would attend. I do agree that it does become a problem when people are just attending for points to look better. And it is a problem when people are interrupting the classes. But maybe, if we can find some more class ideas and make it interesting these people wont do that anymore. They will take the class they can have fun in. For anyone who wants points and wants to have a good time doing it take hux's class... its a long class but its fun and you learn a great deal no matter your skill level... trainers would even like it. But thats all I'm sayin for now.. which is a ton. Probably longest post I've ever written... leave feedback. See ya on the servers . _______________ A man asked me for a dollar, and I asked him what its for. He said "I have seen them". I said "ok its yours". |
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Arcuss - Student 
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I think you hit the nail on the head JK. If you look at the current roster of Knights you will see that it's comprised of players of varying skill levels as well as varying areas of skill. If you look closer you will some common traits that all those chosen for the position posses.
A huge amount respect for all other members of the Academy and the rules that govern them. Tolerance of others,even those who push that tolerance to it's bounds. A willingness to put others needs above their own even when it takes away the fun of their time on the servers. A positive and encouraging attitude. A level head and calm demeanor. Patients. Humility. Maturity and trustworthiness. These are just a few of the qualities the Academy looks for in the people they pick to represent their values and ideas. I'm honored to be held in this view by those that came before me and those who will eventually follow,and to share such an honor with such a great group of individuals.
There is one other thing that most of the people in the Knight position have in common. They never asked an instructor at the end of a class if we were going to get a point for being there. The points and rank system is sort of a disappointment in my opinion. When I first started here there was only 2 positions students and instructors. That was a great time in the history of the Academy. We would go to a class learn the lesson,and then we would all go and practice the lessons together. Ahh the good old days. This is what I would like to see more of, people taking classes to learn and then sharing the lessons and practicing with the other members of the community. I understand that some people only want to gain in rank so they can take the classes that are rank specific. I suggest for those people you talk to the instructor and perhaps invite them into a server to show them you posses the skills they want in the people they allow into their classes. You may be surprised how far a friendly request will get you. Food for thought. :arcuss: |
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Jake Kainite - Student
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The selection of knights here at the academy does seem very strict, which is brilliant, its as it should be. People that just want to add JAK to the end of their name becasue they think it makes them really important (not saying knights aren't but you get my meaning)will not get selected, unless of course they are very sly and act all good until they get the rank Then I spose they'd just get demoted if they mucked about. See, fool proof system. _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Sniya - Student 
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you know the way if you had already took the test you got the points i was about to do it the night before.And i said"gahh too tired ill do it tomorrow"
next day "You now need a pile of points" _______________ The real question is not whether machines think but whether men do. Bertrand Russell http://www.thejediacademy.net/forums_detail_page.php?f_id=970 |
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Buzz - Student 
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Funny Jake,very funny . I don't actually disagree with you on any of that really. You leave out a type of person though that is also at the academy. While some people do just go to classes to get points to be able to get their higher ranks, and others go to classes to learn new things and the points and ranks are an afterthough, both of these people will probably learn something. The ones going for points of this type are getting them so they can get into the higher level classes and learn more of what is at their skill level and above. While these people seem point happy and go to some classes more or less for the points as mika said, there's this other group that falls under mika's category as well. I don't know how many of them are here but they're the kind that see it all as an extra chore. "THEY" already think they are the best and just want the rank so they can prove to everybody how good they are. They don't think they'll learn anything in any of these classes and will probably cause the majority of disruptions. They're the ones that want to put "I want to 0wn everybody at the academy" but don't because they know they won't get in to prove how good they are. I hope you know the type of players I'm talking about. They always beat everyone they play so they must be the best, winning is the only way they can have fun. Unfortunately there's only one winner in games. A lot of people can go "yeah I lost, but I had fun too so its not that bad." They go "I didn't win this sucks its no fun."
You point out the ones that want the points and it forces them to work harder and get better. I'm pointing out the ones that think they should be able to join and get the immediate rank of Jedi Knight because "they" are the best. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Jake Kainite - Student
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To be fair you should've given the guy his C
Alot of people are aiming to get promoted (if thats really what its called) and move up ranks. This is good, becusae it forces them to learn more, to acheive more, to work harder and better, and to play at their maximum potential, whihc is why I think most people join the academy: To learn and to play better. We all make friends along the way which is absolutley great, and eventaully we don't really mind if we're not the best since its a nice environment. But, here it comes, people still want to grow in skill, we can all do a lot better, all of us. There aren't any proper 'l337' players yet as the game is still young, at only just a year. Sure, theres people who are pretty dang good, but the legends won't shine for about 2 years (if the game lasts that long which I intend to see it does) I may be a bit out of line here, but its not just people that go to classes to get points which annoy me. Its the people that go to classes just to be in a class, so they have something to do. Hang on, that makes no sense at all, and I can't be bothered to delete it (it obviously makes some sense then if I want you peeps to see it) I'm going crazy. If you add a ranking system to anything, there is always going to be (usually a majority) of people who will want to get to the top. Thats just pure human competitiveness and the want to achieve. People still perceive ranks above journeyman as skill based and that if you train more and harder, you'll become a knight, just cos you're a rock hard duelist. Obviously I can't speak from first hand since I'm not a knight or a Journeyman (I'm working on it )
I think thats about all I have to say, I'm sure buzz will reply and we'll somehow get into another argument,so please buzz, go easy on me please  _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired 
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I've taught a couple college classes, and there are times when you just get these... individuals... (holding myself back to make sure I follow my own advice ) who do nothing but complain: "I've got a 69%! That's almost a C! Come on, won't you just give me the point?!?"
Well, I told them (tactfully), how often did you come to class? Not too often. How often did you come during my office hours to ask questions and get extra help of what you didn't understand? Never. Did you ever ask questions during class? No. And you always sat in the back, talking to your friends, while your interested and dedicated classmates sat straight up in front. Things never change, whether it's RL or online. You'll always get these types of... *coughs* individuals. Unfortunately. -rh _______________ Back from the dead... |
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Arcuss - Student
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Insainiac maybe Djs devious plan will solve that. |
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underhill - Student 
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The way around this, as I see it, is to ask the JAT of the particular class, or another JAT,JAK or whoever if he'll give you some one on one tuition sometime. That way you get the higher training without going through the montions in the beginner classes. _______________ "Negative. I am a meat popsicle." |
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Insaniac[JAP] - Ex-Student ![Insaniac[JAP]](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=70&f_height=52&f_image=insaniac.jpg&f_odd=1)
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i would just like to chime in that there are members who wouldn't care about levels except for the fact that the classes that they want to take are like J-man only classes and such so that they have to go through classes that they already know the stuff and have the experiance just so they can take the classes wehre they learn something.
I admit some are the "I'm a J-man, I r0x0rz" but most of those won't even pass the written test... _______________ Midbie Council Member #13 Padawan of SilkMonkey Stuntman extraordinaire |
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Arcuss - Student 
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Unfortunately this has been a trend ever since the points system was put into place.
The ranks were put into play to create a little more fun for us. The only problem was that once ranks were introduced every one went rushing to the first JAT they saw and demanding they be trialed,and no one was attending classes. To try and solve the trial mania the JAC/JATs came up with the points system. In theory this seemed like a good idea. Classes were full, people were learning, and all seemed well. Before to long it became clear that people were just attending classes for points. So instead of trial mania we end up with point mania. 
In my first two weeks as a Knight I have been doing my best to help out with classes. I have watched as JATS have donated their time to help others progress,and I am always amazed with the patients they have in dealing with their classes. I always feel bad for the JATs at the end of class when they ask if there are any questions and the reply they get is "Will I get a point for this?". Imagine how frustrating that must be to hear at the end of every class. You share your time for the benefit of others,you think you are having a positive impact on them, and the only thing they can think about is whether or not they will be getting a point. I filled in for a JAT that missed his class yesterday. I must say it was a good group of people. Everyone seemed to do well with the lesson I tried to share, and I even got a few good questions thrown at me by one of them at the end of the class. I tried to get a point across to them when I closed the class,and I'm not sure if I presented the point in a good way or not. So I will attempted it again to conclude this post. At the end of your classes rather than asking the JAT if you got a point, I want you to ask yourselves a question. "Did I learn anything here,anything at all?" If your answer is yes,well then I think you just got the most important point of all. After all the POINT of every class and the Academy itself is to learn,and have fun. End of lecture.
Keep learning and have fun.
:ar©uss: This comment was edited by Arcuss on Mar 01 2003 08:47am. |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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I hear about this alot, Mika.. and I am formulating a devious plan to solve it.. Well other's already formulates the plan.. I'm just going to enact it.. muahahah. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Buzz - Student
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There's exceptions to every rule. A lot of people got j-man before the points system started I think or were ready for it then. People moving up quickly by going to the classes and learning then going up in rank is perfectly fine. People only going to class to get points to attain a rank is the wrong way of going about. These people strike me as ones that want to obtain a higher ranking to gain respect. Ioshee has never struck me that way. Those that see rank as a path to respect and glory are backwards to me. Obtaining a rank can be a goal. And while you go to that goal, hopefully you will gain respect from others that will validate reaching that goal. It like the knights here. I don't think you should respect the Knights just for the sake of being knights. They already had the respect of others before reaching knight. Kind of getting into semantics there but basically its the idea of You don't get respect for being a knight, you get knight for earning respect.
Went a little off topic there I think....oh well _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Iceman - away- - Student |
I think he ment that he raised in rank fast |
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Iceman - away- - Student |
And I think that some does not even listen on the classes like going away and waiting for duels and stuff. How about if they made a test to see if they have learnt something. Then it is not so easy to just attend to get points. We learn ourself things here. And maybe some may think this as a competition in raising rank. I have also seen that some one says: when are wo gonna duel and the teacher says soon. but one minute later it starts all over with being unpatience. |
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Buzz - Student 
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How do I make you feel guilty? _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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ioshee - Student 
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Buzz, You make me feel guilty for becomming a journeyman... but in a good way. _______________ One of the Belouve boys |
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