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Learner trials -doobie - Dec 09 01:56pm |
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Just a clarification... I've made a decision that 2 knights can do learner trials, as long as they've done trials before with JATs around. Hopefully this will help with our backlog a bit... lemme know if everyone thinks this is a bad idea, good idea, or just an idea, floating out there in space somewhere. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Since no one has posted here recently, I just wan to say I am intrugued by whatever powers are given to Knights, but I am alos reminded of this thought. I came up with it myself, but I can bet something similar has been said:
A strong man is one with power, but a stronger man is this one who needs not wield it. I will try to keep this in mind with whatever the Academy grants to us Knights. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Da_Man - Ex-Student 
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This make Da_Man a happy boy!!!!!!!!!  |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired 
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*sob* that was great doobie...
but hey, stop the flattering, what are you after ^_^ _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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Iori Yagami - Student 
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I think we should all go out for a drink..
hehe, i've had two pints already at lunch time? anyone wanna join? Perhaps they should add drunken effects to JK2? hmm, drunken jedi force skills, that would be interesting. Maybe an interesting topic would be, how could you use jedi force powers in everyday life.., if it were possible. Anyway, aside from this, I think its a good idea that knights and above have to be nominated. And have the approval/recommendation by a few senior members. Wouldn't want JAKs or JATs who abuse their powers would we? (though I have seen a few go on ego trips... sadly) _______________ May the ping be with you |
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doobie - Jedi Council 
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*picks jaw up off of the floor*
You guys are amazing. You can't understand how pleased I am to see the active intelligent community we have around here, debating subjects in a civilized manner and actually making sense at the same time. Honest, we started this silly place just because we thought, hey, there should be a Jedi Academy like in the movies. But it's grown to be something beyond my wildest imaginations and has reaffirmed my faith in the video-gaming community. Although it's obvious we have (many) flaws, there's so much here that's RIGHT that it makes it all worth it. So thank you, everyone, for being exactly what we planned for this and more so. _______________ -Academy Leader/Dictator/Defeater of DJ Sith and JACen Solo in the JAK+ Tournament -I do think it (the JA) will help convert dozens, maybe hundreds, to the dork nation... --me |
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Bubu - Hubbub 
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i agree with all this. there is no way you can advance to be a JAT or JAK without proving to have a good character. if that's what you're here for, then, as ulic said, might as well have a drink. _______________ make install -not war |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Hmm...
I don't know if I was clear in that last post, but my emphasis my be this (to shorten it): Each student should seek some degree of better character for advancement. Just as the ranks are different degrees of skill, they should also be different degrees of character development as well. The learner is learning, in terms of not only skill, but in being a better person as well. These develop further, until you progress to JAK or JAT. At this point, your character is very essential, to developing those beneath you, much like your skill is essential to those beneath you. And another point: super character is not needed to advance at small levels. It just helps, that's my point. And you might as well develop character if you can. Bare bones: if you're here for the food, why not have a drink too? (I hope those out there are smart enough to see my analogy) _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Iori Yagami - Student
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Its not called an Academy for no reason.
If you went into a martial arts dojo, you don't expect to become a black belt without discipline and going through many tests of charactor as well as skill. I say, just enjoy and learn, don't rush. Sure JAK, JAT conveys respect among some of us, but at the end of the day, if you want respect, you earn it by who you are, and not from a tag. (I love the last bit such a typical soundbite hehe) _______________ May the ping be with you |
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Eternal_Silence - Ex-Student 
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Well said as always Jedi. What say you about your thoughts on the reception of this power? Do you feel that Jedi Knights, such as yourself, are able to judge character when trialling? Even though you didn't pass the trials on skill alone and as you commented the trainers saw a good character within the way you play the game, this is only really applicable to Knight ranks and higher. The reason why I say this is because only the rank of JK and higher will recieve any tangible authority and therefore the trainers won't just allow the rank with skill alone and also because Learner and Journeyman ranks don't require anything but a little skill. Of course if you attempt to pass the trials when you swear, or are unprepared, rude or impatient then you will be denied or will fail.
But put this in your proverbial pipe and smoke it, if knighthood was offered freely then perhaps they will learn character in terms of humility, patience and even judgement. Is this probable? No, no it isn't. But in order to solve it a simple click of a button will demote them. But is this a good idea? No, no it isn't. You see thats what the lower ranks are for, Learning and . . . err . . . Journeying. It is in these ranks that one must aquire, if they dont already have it, patience, humility and empathy. But why the rhetorical questions? Well this represents two separate ways of thinking, surely some of you must think that perhaps knighthood should become less restrictive (in terms of becoming a knight) and surely others respect those restrictions and feel they must stand. Two differing mind frames in a socialist society gives cause for instability and must be addressed. Which leads me to my next point. In my previous post and in Vaughn's post communism was mentioned. More appropriate is socialism as communism denotes militaristic and economic issues. However this is not important, what is important is that we ARE a socialist society - a society that revolves around class ideology. It has also been described as imperfect and there are reasons for this: 1) Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Leninism do NOT work in practice 2) There is only one course of action for people to take - the majority of people lower in status have only two options a) they attempt to ascend and b) the remain static. This means that in the socialist structure of our community JAC, JAT, JAK, JAS the majority being JAS, the students do not wish to stay on the bottom rung (class struggle) this creates friction with the upper classes and therefore unequality within a socialist hierarchy. In another manner of speaking, the lower class needs to ascend to a higher class in order to do something. There are ways of making this work. It is not a perfect solution, it requires compromise. As I have mentioned previously specialisation and interdependance are the keys to some strange lock with two key holes. I will expand a bit further. Specialisation means that more specific roles are given in a community, take for example horses . . . no i mean blacksmiths. Before they were blacksmiths they were just called Smiths from the word smithe which is a form of the word smite. They would have dealt in all forms of metals gold, silver, copper, iron in earlier times. However as the population increased it would be increasingly difficult for all the smiths to meet the demands of more people in all forms of metal. So one became a silversmith and worked with silver, or a goldsmith, gold, or a blacksmith who worked with black metals such as steel and wrought iron (called black because of their carbon content). Specialisation leads to interdependance. Interdependance is a by-product of specialisation as in a community people make demands of people who make demands off them and so on. Another example is that the teacher needs bread from the baker whos son needs to be taught by the teacher whos cat needs to be ironed by the cat-ironer who buys his bread from the baker who gets his meat from the butcher etc. Interdependance can operate without specialisation yet specialisation cannot occur without interdependance. How does this apply to the academy? In order to solve the problem of many people needing to be trailed and few to do it then we need more people to do it. People need good character so they learn it in the lower ranks. People have no option but to advance or do nothing so they want to advance. Give them more options in order for stability. This will lead to a balanced community with certain permanent positions (permanent in the sense of occupational permanence). I implore you to consider this as an beneficial option to our community. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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My thoughts (since some think they are worth something):
It really needs to be a balance between both ends. On our end, the JATs and JAKs, we should have dedication to training and trialing. I'll get back to that. On the other end, the Initiates or Learners, we need to have patience. For the patience, I feel that those that have been blind to how burdened we are are JATs and JAKs (just an addition, most JATs and JATs are older and more mature, obviously, and likewise are probably tied up over the next couple weeks with these things called Finals.) But anyways, those who can't see how much we have done, and leave the Academy because they are impatient for a trial...in my mind, they would not have gone real far if they could not figure this out. As for our end, JATs and JAKs, I don't know. We need to remain focused on training and trialing. I believe that we do, but that's my opinion. I know I will shift from goofing around and dueling online to doing training with you guys. So if you see me around, and want to learn something, or even if you want to advance to any rank, come see me. I'll help you with any skills through Knight. Else, if I'm not there to help, I'll probably not be there long. I will be bogged down for the next month, and then it'll be clear sailing for graduation. But, for those looking for a learner trial or higher, you really have to take into account if you are ready in character. I KNOW, through actually SEEING, people who are not ready to advance, in terms of character. Yeah, they can kick the snot out of me sometimes, but their character is crap. I am not saying that we keep you from getting a trial because you have poor character, but if you have an awesome character, it will probably help. disclaimer: following part is not meant as bragging, if you think so you do not really know me I made it from not knowing how to wall-walk to being a knight in less than 2 months. And I'll give you a hint for those that might not follow why: character. I could quote JATs and JACs and staff in all their comments about my character, but that's not what this is about (see disclaimer). Point is, I DO think that having a great character will help things out. And a lot of you need to work on that, really. I would give instances of where someone is up for a trial, but act like a jerk all the time (I saw someone acting dumb, who wants to be up for Knight).... But you can fill in the space here with your person-wanting-to-advance-but-acts-like-a-jerk story, I'm sure we all have one. To help this out, I'm working up character primers. Under the council's and staff's discretion, these will be put somewhere to help all of you. I already have a writing posted under my profile under patience, though I have rewritten it. One on humility and peace are forthcoming. I think that each of these will help make you better qualified to advance, and will give you something to do while awaiting a trial. But all that being said, I am writing another long post here. I think many would agree that my average post length is phenomenal, and now that I have about 110 posts, that makes for a lot of writing time devoted to the Academy (not including my journal, which I am turning into a short story to be posted later next week). So, that being said, I'm going back to doing something that needs to be done but I will probably put off anyways. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Rampage - Student 
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hmm..
JAT's: Have u ever got time to duel and stuff? it seems ur filled with trials and classes...?? is that true (or is it my mind that's filled with junk..it always is)? |
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Bubu - Hubbub
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fisto, i can see C++ runs in your veins! _______________ make install -not war |
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Kit Fisto [JAP] - Ex-Student ![Kit Fisto [JAP]](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=69&f_height=70&f_image=lord_ocp.jpg)
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/* But if you think it is bad now, there used to be 1 JAK and 6 JATs. */
I don't think it's bad, you JAT's do a wonderfull job here. I just wanna say that people sometimes just have to be patience... that's also a case of honour and respect for the JAT's. You don't become a jedi in one night so...have some patience. /* That was a bit off-topic */ It's a good idea afterall ! |
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Aayla Secura - Ex-Student 
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"I know the JAT's have also others things to do besides doing trials so I'm not whining everyday to every JAT."
And I'm sure I speak for all JATs when I say thank you for your patience......
I think once the ball gets rolling on this with JAKs able to offer trials, it'll help immensely. But if you think it is bad now, there used to be 1 JAK and 6 JATs. Now we have 5 or 6 JAKs and 11 JATs..... |
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Kit Fisto [JAP] - Ex-Student
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It's a really good idea I think. When you are a knight you're supposed to have all the respect and honour you should have to do the trials. So...why not.
Personally I'm waiting already two weeks for my learner trials. I know the JAT's have also others things to do besides doing trials so I'm not whining everyday to every JAT. But I really think they need more people to do the trials. So it's a damn good idea !!! Keep up the great work and may the force be with you Massadoobie  )
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Bubu - Hubbub
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i think you're right silence.. maybe we simply need more "staff". people who don't really care about showing off their skills but care more about just helping out in the more boring, but necessary, work, like giving trials. specialisation sounds like a good idea. maybe we need to give out special titles in addition to rank. for example, Bubu, Journeyman, Website Updater. Or Eternal_Silence, Journeyman, Trier. anyway i think you get my point. _______________ make install -not war |
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Eternal_Silence - Ex-Student
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What sort of damage could they do if they were given the power? Surely they have earnt enough respect and authority to make an educated decision. This shouldn't even be in question. If a Jedi Knight was to breach the rules or abuse his authority it is an easy problem to right. The question should be rather if the knights want to accept this responsibility and do the trainers want to share it. The decision should be left to them alone. The iniates, learners and journeymen already outnumber the trainers at least 10:1 many of them awaiting trials which they might not recieve and many fed up with waiting. But the trainers aren't in the wrong here, people ask them almost every day to get a trial to the point where they have to turn them down, fustrating the majority further. This leaves us in a dillemna and is a problem that needs to be addressed. How many people have already left the academy? the numbers might not show it but inactivity does. I don't want to seem as though I'm complaining because im not. I have already taken all the tests possible for the time I've been here but as i said before there are those who await a trial they mightn't recieve.
This is a problem which might be solved with additional powers to Jedi Knights. But even with added authority they are still outnumbered by far. If we are to work as what has been described as a socialism then we need to empower more people with more authoirty. Now i'm not saying give me and all the other journeymen more power i'm saying create a few more available positions attainable to the lowest in the order. Instead of always attempting to ascend the "cursus honorum" there should be branches of particulars. Specialisation is the key to stability. Interdependance is the key to a community. To sum it up, giving the Knights more power is exactly what we need, but it is only a temporary solution to an expanding problem. I havn't opened my mouth up much to say something like this but you can always count on my input on important matters. |
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JP - Academy Pimp 
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I think its a great idea _______________ Come on now, every Generation X boy wanted to be Luke Skywalker. Is it because he was a whiney farm boy from some backwater hack planet? No, it's because he was a FREAKING JEDI. He could block lasers with his lightsaber. He could levitate droids & rocks & crap with his mind. Come on, he choked two pig dudes with just a simple gesture. He cut off Darth Vader's hand and kicked him down a flight of stairs. He got his @$$ zapped by lightning from the geezer Emperor, stood up and said "s'at all you got b!tc#??" |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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I'd love to help and am more than willing to do this. I just have never done a trial with a JAT, but I know with almost certainty that I'd do just fine with another Knight.
But thanks for giving us respinsibilities to help the Academy out! This is what I signed up for as a Knight! _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Jigsawcity - Ex-Student 
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iz tite, slong as they dont start telling us their "haha, i remember my learner trial..." story _______________ Turmoil, pain, dissention... Can you feel it? That is why I am here. It is you who take my hand, and lift me up above those who envy. |
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Icco - Student 
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its not a bad idea, the knight are good people and should beable to get the job done. _______________ "this is Icco. Icco is old. Icco is lost. Icco is cool, but Icco doesn't know what the meaning of 'macrophageal sex'." - Vaughn /Icco |
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Huxley - Retired 
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yay!!!
I'm glad you are dispatching some Jedi Knights to aide the overwhelmed Jedi Instructors. So far our Knights have all proven to be an amazing help to the teachers and students. KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!! |
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Darth Revan - Ex-Student 
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I think that is a great idea. It would be alot more efficant. _______________ formally known as jedi master, vanished and returned as the new sith lord |
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Arcuss - Student 
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Howdy Doobie, I feel that since today's Knights will most likely be tomorrows JATs there's no reason why they shouldn't be trusted to do Learner trials. Great idea.
-Your friendly neighborhood Arcuss- |
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Bubu - Hubbub 
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yeah i'm not sure about this.... ahh what the heck! good idea! _______________ make install -not war |
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