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State of the Academy Address Part 2 -Silent Whisper - Dec 16 02:23pm |
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Attention all students, staff, and trainers. It has come to my attention that several issues are running wild through this academy and causing havok. Today I hope to put these issues at rest. Let's get straight to the point.
First issue. I have been getting requests for JAT trials again. I'm going to remind everyone(again) that JAT trials are NOT to be requested. We see and know everything that goes on here. If you are to be a JAT, it is because the Council and other trainers feel that you would be a valuable asset to the team. A trainer is not just based on his/her skill, but character as well. RESPECT, ladies and gentlemen, is the ultimate quality of our Council and trainers. Speaking of Council, the same goes here. A new Council member is only elected if the existing Council agrees that he/she would uphold all the values of the academy. On an end note, I remind everyone that we are NOT hiring anymore JATs and JACs at the present. So do not ask. If you do the JATs and JACs can either ignore you or simply tell you no. Second topic. Because of recent actions taken against disruptive students, some of the student body has been questioning JAC and JAT integrity. May I remind you that any issue you have with a Council member or a trainer should be taken privately and not posted publicly. We promote fairness and freedom of speech but please, be professional about it. All ideas, comments, complatins can be sent to fixtheja@hotmail.com. I hope this has cleared up some confusion. I'm not much for conclusions so I'll just say train hard, keep your spirits high, and of course: May the Force be with you. |
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Hector Thrawn - Ex-Student 
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going back to what ulic said (i just love to do that).
if you are in a crappy mood why should you go online and beat on some poor initiate? one of the things that ulic has tried to teach, both through posts and actions, is common sense: if you are angry, you really shouldnt take it out on others, even at the JA. also (althoug im not sure if he explicitly said this) if you find tormenting people in online games "fun" you are sick. i can uderstand enjoying winning, but there are much better applications for that sort of thing outside of the JA. as for the rank thing, put it into prespective: the JA will probably be around for a while, so ther is no rush for anyone to make JAS the first day, JAK the second, etc, etc. rank is supposed to represent growth. and growth takes TIME (besides if the academy is going to disapear any time soon who would care what your rank is) although i am sure someone said this before (i dont recall who) ill say it again: there is more to begin admiriable in online videogames than being able to push buttons faster than everyone else. |
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Huxley - Retired 
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I agree that the JATs need to trial and do their responsibilites, but I haven't seen 'too many' incidents of that taking place.
Instead I see people yelling and getting mad that they didn't get the trial they wanted WHEN they wanted, and with the limited # of JATs to trial people, I don't think it is very considerate, and isnt any fun at all. ESPECIALLY since all the rank means is a different word under your name on the website, and doesn't mean that you are really any better than anyone else. Students beat JATs, JATs beat council members (sometimes  ) and JAKs can beat everyone from time to time. There is nothing that means you are a better player unless you PLAY more and learn more. There is NO limitation of classes to any rank, and there is no limitation to ranks learning more.
The ranks are there to add to the fun, not to take away from it like your implying Ulic. I think you have the wrong idea about what the ranking means, and what it signifys, which is only responsibilty. And when someone is yelling that they want their Jman trial, and the JATs are doing something else, or TRIALLING SOMEONE ELSE, that doesn't show responsibility or respect, and they will not be trialled, and that wont change. This comment was edited by Huxley on Dec 17 2002 04:05pm. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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"Have lots of fun, we enjoy fun, we love fun. Have fun! We will make everything as fun as possible. Have fun training and teaching! That's our number one priority."
Well, it seems as if the students are impatiently demanding trials, and the JATs and JACs are frustrated about all they have to do. Neither one of these demonstrates anyone having fun. I am proposing solutions in a lot of stuff, but I first went to tell the students to chill out, in some posts long time back. Now I'm telling the JATs and JACs to grow up and quit whining about the more stuff you have to do. Really, if everyone settles down and has fun, that woul be great. But we can't do that without addressing some issues, and that is what I write for. I think the "just have fun" is what makes for the anarchy of some of the public servers. I feel like being in a piss-ass mood, so I find fun in kicking the snot out of everyone, using any or all cheap means to do so. It's fun for me to do that in a bad mood. But whoa, I can't do that. Why? Because we have order here. And thus, we have a resposibility to maintain such order. Else, I can just go have fun and do what I feel like doing. So have fun WITHIN the boundaries of the structure we set up, not have fun AT THE COST OF the structure. But I just see where you have students complaining, JATs complaining, everyone complaining (even me, here), and it's just not fun anymore. And I think if we restore some structure in a way to satisfy the masses, in the best interest of the Academy, then we can all stop complaining and have fun. I am just pointing to obstacles to having fun, and they come from both directions, not just the impatient students. I just think that things need to evolve more. Else we will not be having as much fun. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Hector Thrawn - Ex-Student 
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HEAR! HEAR! i think hux (and dobbie i guess) has said it all. |
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Huxley - Retired 
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Ulic, its nice that you citied the question I asked you, and your response, but you entirly missed the point I was getting at:
JUST BECAUSE I'M A JAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CANT TALK TO ME! Especially since your a Knight, and that is part of your privledge of being a JAK, your 1 step from being a JAT, and you can even teach classes. There are 'ranks' and 'levels' here, but that doesn't mean you cant talk to people with a higher or lower rank than you. Your thinking too militarily and that is what is causing all this distress. In fact, since I think its been a while since everyone read the FAQ, or at all, I will quote MassaDoobie directly from it: We strive to teach our students not only the fundamentals of the game in regards to skill with the saber, guns, and force powers, but also to teach players how to conduct themselves in a civilized manner. Gamers have a bad reputation of being l33t, arrogant, and tempermental, and we hate that repuation, because the vast majority of games are fair, honest players. The Academy is a place people can come to play with fellow level-headed gamers, so they can maximize their enjoyment when playing the game, while hopefully improving enough to go out in the "real" world and quiet some of those arrogant people up with their skill. .-=(massadoobie)=-. With that being said (...again) I think everyone should remember what the great Master Doobie told us on the tablet of the magical FAQ page, and remember that everyone is here for the same reasons. We enjoy teaching, but if you are vulgar and inappropriate, we will kick you out and stop training you. We will be as flexible with our schedule as we can, but please do not keep constantly bugging us about things; one email is enough. Respect everyone, even people lower than you. Never impersonate anyone who trains or teaches at the Jedi Academy, if we find out, it will be a ban from every server, and ban from the academy. Have lots of fun, we enjoy fun, we love fun. Have fun! We will make everything as fun as possible. Have fun training and teaching! That's our number one priority. Have lots of fun, we enjoy fun, we love fun. Have fun! We will make everything as fun as possible. Have fun training and teaching! That's our number one priority. (maybe I should list the last one 3 times...) Have lots of fun, we enjoy fun, we love fun. Have fun! We will make everything as fun as possible. Have fun training and teaching! That's our number one priority. SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WILL EVERYONE JUST PLEASE HAVE FUN AND CHALLENGE YOURSELF AND ENJOY THE ACADEMY AND WHAT IT IS MEANT FOR? -Santa is sad children... Santa is sad. -Huxley This comment was edited by Huxley on Dec 17 2002 02:28pm. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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I knew Hector could back me up.
I was intending to write things in a different manner, but I will start with a different approach. Since it seems people are getting confused about my examples about the military, I am using them as illustrations. The military is a fine institution in many countries, and has some things one can learn. That said, the WAH thing is just an example of how really, you shouldn't whine about things that you consciously signed on to do. You can complain, yes, but if you complain about how stupid students are, or about having so much to do, well, then, go back to being a Learner, like I said. One would think that you were able to handle what is given to you. Second, another nice example that most militaries use, whine up, not down. Or whine accross levels. I really should not have ppl above me complain to me about some things they hate about their job. That's why I don't want to be a JAT, I don't want to evolve into a complainer. New points, though: I can see and sense in just about all news details that the students feel that there are students one one side, and the Trainers and Council on the other. They just seem to be so separate. And really, if you look to see if such separation is felt by the students, you can see that it is there. So the Knights are supposed to be the liason for this, right? Surprisingly, no one let me know. I feel that the students and JAT/JAC are separated too much. I know in a convo with Hux last night, he asked: "Why didn't you tell me this stuff? I thought we were bros?" I replied: "You became a JAT, Hux" So I don't want to be a JAT, or a JAC. And I don't want to bring down the council, for you cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. But, you can strenghten the weak (students aren't wesk, but bear with me). So, I've had some random ideas for this. One, maybe placing each Knight as responsible for being liason to different ranks (more for the initiates, since they seem to have many concerns on the trials). Or, have one or two ppl from each rank, gather WITH the council on some things (SOME, not all). Just pick a couple people sometimes, have them into some processes. It would make sense to have their input on issues that might directly affect them. And yes, most of the people here are young. So some issues are beyond them. But I was young too, and I was obsessed with what games meant for me as a world. So I just see where we need to close a gap between students and the JAT/JAC. If it is a thing where we feel they "represent" us, and not "rule over" us, then it would be a better place. I'd probably talk more to JATs and JACs then I do now. And, to admit a flaw of my own, I actually have a deep grudge against Silent. If you are smart at all, you can figure out what makes her (mostly) unique to the Academy. There is a long, long story to that, but that's just how I feel, and will feel. So probably I am after only her, and to settle a score some years back with someone else, and I'm also aiming to fix the council and JATs while I'm at it. So, I still feel that despite my grudges, that I still make some valid points. And I'm not fixing my grudges. They run far too deep. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Hector Thrawn - Ex-Student
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although ulic made some good points i do have a couple of arguments. ulic says that because he is a knight it is not his job to figure out how things should be run, i agree, but if he knows how they should not be run, and the JAC/JATs do not, then technicaly shouldnt it be his responsibility to accept a promotion so that he can use his awsome political skills to their fullest? to just sit back and say your wrong everytime someone makes a mistake is a bit pointless when you can prevent the mistake by say "waait this wont work" in the planning phases (if there is one).
the other thing i would like to say is not actually about ulic but rather about what some people may respond with. when he gives the example of: if people dont like america they should leave, it may seem a bit extreme. however i believe that it was becuase it was not the best analogy, not because it was wrong. America is a country with a huge governing body (both legislative houses, the ecutive and judical branch and countless other such things). because of this it is easier for one person to abuse their power without long-term effects. the JA however, is small so if one person abuses their power it is hard to hide, and has a much greater effecto on the "residents". As for huxley's atgument about not being an army, yup. your right, i think ulic might be taking it a bit to seriously. however, he seems to want to make up for those that dont take it seriouly enough, so where he might want to mellow out a bit and save himself some stress, i can think of a few others who could help them selves by filling up the space he vacates in doing so. |
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Lord Exar Kun - Student 
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I felt this disturbance in the force also. A dark force seeking power has fallen upon us...I can feel it. well, enough with the weird talking, I think silent is right. People should NEVER ask for higher positions(exept of course trials for J-man and learner). It is quit the opposit of what the JA should be like. Promotions are earned, not asked for... _______________ -Retired april the 19th 2004 |
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Bubu - Hubbub 
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wow ulic... you scared me with that post 
there's not much i can add here. i do agree that people should look more at the big picture. as hux said, instead of learning 3 combos for your next trial, learn as much as you can and work hard. what you are tested for is mainly attitude. skill is only a by-product of a good attitude. and yes, some JATs and/or JACs should complain less because really nobody is forcing them to be anything more than initiates. with this in mind, i do want to thank the JACs, JATs, and members of the staff who do work hard to keep this community on its feet. i have been part of clans and game communities before and the JA is by far the best i've seen so far. so, good job guys, and keep it up! and i'll do my best to help out as well... _______________ make install -not war |
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Huxley - Retired
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This is not an Army though Ulic This is a fun place with guns, yes, but not an army |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Well, I wish to elaborate on Hector's thought that never made it to fruition. He did say something about how we either need to trust the JACs or leave willingly.
Sounds pretty crappy, huh? What if your leaders were like that. Here, in America, if you don't like the President, then you can get the hell out. Really, no one is FORCING you to be a U.S. citizen. So, you need to either trust the government or leave. That's that. I know I wouldn't like that in the U.S., and I'm sure other ppl don't like that (my apologies if someone lives under that sort of thing somewhere). But here, well, we should do that. Maybe I'm just a politician (I am a Political Science major), but I think that the students should have some say in some operations, probably through JACs and such. And I also want to call the JACs on stuff, too, without running the risk of being demoted or being the subject of some State of the Academy address (which I still think was a poor way to handle the situation). Plus, the fact that some of the situation was revolved around Silent, having her make the address was a larger flaw. If I get into some conflict with a initiate, I'm not going to lay down some resolution (even if the Council backs it) from my own mouth, because it seems to say "I'm the superior one here, I say this, I win." If it is looked at by a 3rd party, resolved by a 3rd party, and posted by a 3rd party, then things are better. It is a conflict-of-interest item. Do I think those making violations are in the right? No. But I think it should have been handled with more tact. And yes, I will be bold and say I am attacking the decision and wisdom of the council. I have invested enough time and dedication here that I should have such rights. If I am mistaken, and I have no rights here, then I'll just leave, because I was under the impression that we followed a respect theory. And if anyone wants to fire back and say "If you're so great, how would you handle it?" But it's not my job to say how to handle it. One, it's past. Two, I'm not a JAT or JAC. So you could make me one, but I would smile and turn it down. Yes the council is the authority. Yes they run this place well. But we should not sit in fear of questioning them and their decisions. If there is any annoying thing, it is having a ruling council that has no accountability to the people they rule over. I am simply pointing out that they should have some accountability somewhere, so that IF they make a bad call, they can be discouraged from making future ones. Frankly, I feel JACs might be too powerful. They really can't move down the ladder, can they? And there's the "World Smallest Violin" thing, and I hear it so much: "The JACs do a lot of stuff, they stay busy." Or similar retorts. I learned in the military one simple, valuable word in response to such things: WAH So that's what I say to those retorts. From now on, when I see that, I will post WAH. We don't care if you're busy, we know that. If you are so compelled to complain about it, then quit. Either that or do your damn job. So, yeah, there are issues with trials and such, but if you don't want to deal with them, but whine about them, then go back to being a Learner. You can whine, or grow up and be the leader that we think you are. So I'll take flak for all this. But at least I stand up and have guts. I think it was amusing before when DJ Sith said something in jest about my being a Knight of the working class, rising up to overthrow a corrupt council. It takes on a different humor now. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Kalheka - Student 
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Just thought I'd chime in here for a minute or two.
I'm probably one of the oldest people here, at nearly the age of 30. The last game I got this much enjoyment out of an online game was Team Fortress Classic. I was part of a clan in that game. I felt that I was part of something special in a see of sites and communities full of selfish, cheating, Llamas who only had fun when they were making somebody else miserable. I must say that I think the Academy is one of the most special communities that I have found. I'll take this opportunity to thank all the JAC's, JAT's, and JAS's that have put forth the effort to build this place, and make it into something worth participating in. You've made this a place that I'm proud to be a small part of. _______________ Death is only the beginning. This comment was edited by Kalheka on Dec 17 2002 12:34am. |
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Vaughn - Student 
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DJ, who officially are the janitorial staff? I guess i have a.... problem. Whenever someone dies, i always feel like their body should be cleaned up. Would that (body disposal) count as janitorial staff? _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Arcuss - Student 
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I've said this before, but in case you missed it here it is again.
Howdy kids, it's your friendly neighborhood Arcuss again. I just wanted to share some pearls of wisdom with you all. In your journeys to becoming JATs,JAKs,and even JACs, always keep in mind that each of these ranks come with a certain amount of responsibilities. Make sure that you are prepared to assume theses responsibilities before you apply for a higher rank. The ranks are more than just tittles of prestige, higher rank=more work. Always keep the Academy's purpose and needs in mind while you're thinking about how COOL it would to be a Knight,Trainer or Councilmen. Likewise, keep in mind that when you sign on to a server with one of these tags, you will have about 2 seconds before everyone there is on you with some sort of request or question. In addition, I'd just like to say that these higher ranks are privileges not rights. In order to gain a privilege you must prove yourself a worthy recipient. This is nothing new kids,all societies throughout human history have had rites of passage. Here at the Academy it's no different we have a ranking system as our rites of passage. As we progress through these ranks we come to a point were progression is only possible when those who came before us can recognize, in us, the embodiment of the values and ideas of the Academy. It's only then that we can expect to advance to higher levels. How do I prove I'm worthy? I'm glad you asked. Get on the servers, keep learning, teaching/helping others, be kind, follow the rules, and above all else just treat each and every player(no matter what their rank is) with the utmost RESPECT. These are pretty simple guidelines, don't you agree? With these guidelines, a little patients,and some maturity you're sure to progress beyond the lower ranks. Ok, in case I'm totally off base here, I give the Council permission to poke me in the eye when next they see me. -Arcuss the Janitor =oP *Whutch you want, you know I got it... Whutch you need, you know I got it...* This comment was edited by Arcuss on Dec 16 2002 06:58pm. |
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Darth Revan - Ex-Student 
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I am a very fast typer. Some times faster than I write.
PS: I totally agree with you, the academy would have fallen apart if the JATs and JACs didn't know what they were doing. _______________ formally known as jedi master, vanished and returned as the new sith lord This comment was edited by Darth Revan on Dec 16 2002 06:40pm. |
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Hector Thrawn - Ex-Student
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i was palnning a big long speech about why your only real choices are to trust the JACs or leave willingly, but it was taking to long and probably would have confused most of you (heck it confused me!). so to sum up my arguemnt (as short and understandable as possible:
the JACs run the academy, if we cannot trust them then the academy itself is is a failure, so either try to understand them, or find a place that more suits your own standards, if you cant find one try doing what they did, make one. ::wow 2 people posted while i was trying to write mine... scary:: This comment was edited by Hector Thrawn on Dec 16 2002 06:32pm. |
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Darth Revan - Ex-Student
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I completely agree, we need to have respect and trust that you guys make the right choices when dealing with academy matters. If there weren't any rules this place would not have lasted so long and would be no different then any other server. _______________ formally known as jedi master, vanished and returned as the new sith lord |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/regent/827/custodial.wav
_______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Jigsawcity - Ex-Student 
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me an blue ninja. yay! _______________ Turmoil, pain, dissention... Can you feel it? That is why I am here. It is you who take my hand, and lift me up above those who envy. |
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Buzz - Student 
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So who is the Janitorial staff here at the academy? _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Eternal_Silence - Ex-Student 
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In my experience, albiet however inept, unlike what Mr Belouve stated that "any problems with the dean/instructor are dealt with from a third party" (give or take a little), i have found that actions can range widely, from kidnapping the football team's mascot pig to faking a car accident in which the dean is pushed aside honorably by the students whom he expelled. Anything really to "remove the starch from that stuffed shirt"
and dont worry people your parents have been called and will be here to pick you up shortly But enough of the Simpsons and breach of copywrights what Ulic has contributed is a very good way of resolving situations mutually and Hux's acknowledgements of the JAC and JATs effort to keep the community alive are valid. What many people, mainly Ulic, in the past have offered to the academy in the way of etiquette should be repeated here. Patience is a virtue, if you constantly annoy people like you were on a constant caffine high then you will be constantly seen to be constantly an idiot and will constantly lose your OWN integrity, and your chances of succeeding in your goals here will be constantly under threat. The Jedi Academy isn't here for YOU, there is no I in Jedi Academy there is no me, there is no Jaded, and there definately is no A Decayed Jim. There may be an Ace DeJay Mid but thats not the point. The mere fact that we have been assured that the council is in operation should be enough for most of you. There is proof that they are active in light of the recent demotion which i will not go into. Show a little trust guys. Continue to bow outside of the duelling arena, it shows respect. And i dont mean along the corridors This comment was edited by Eternal_Silence on Dec 16 2002 05:25pm. |
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Yun - Ex-Student 
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I'm the main cause of this problem. I brought up the fact that I get next to no respect anymore. But it has been solved, and I've been bumped down to a student. Just to let you all know, I am not happy about this at all. I know I haven't been here enough to do anything, but that doesn't mean I'm not doing things for the Jedi Academy. What has been done is unjust, but still I understand why.
- Jaded |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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Just to re-iterate for the students... if you feel like a member of the staff, be they the janitor or a council member, is treating you unfairly you can email fixtheja@hotmail.com or contact one of us directly.
Personally I don't mind a public flame or 2. It's hard to please everyone at once with our decisions, but we try. A public flame lets us work this one out in the open. Hmm.. on second thought I don't mind a well thought out, concise, and logical public flame. "I feel I was mistreated during <yadda yadda yadda> because of <blah blah blah>" is much nicer than "j00 sux0rz". _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Huxley - Retired
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Ok, well here's my take on the situation:
All the "upper-management" works very hard to keep things in order and people happy at the Academy. The Council is outstanding, they have so much work that they do, preparing the trials, working on the website, maintaining order. Everyone needs to remember this and apprecaite it, before telling JATs and JACs that they "dont do anything" and "are lazy" when they are busy Trialling people all week long and want 1 night off on a weekend. I have fun doing trials, as do the other Instructors. But it really takes the fun out of it when students get deliberate and rude when they don't get a trial that second they ask for it. This game and its experiences should be played out like the movie (IMO). You should work hard to achieve your goals. Rather than just learning 3 combos for your Journeyman trial, try to make up new ones yourself and master them. CHALLENGE YOURSELF. That is what the Trials are for. When I started here only 3 months ago, I couldn't play the game at all. Now I'm a JAT, I teach classes, people want me to be their master. All because of my hard work and dedication. The Ranks are there for the added fun in the game. You must MASTER each level to move on to the next. Don't just treat each level as a homework assignment at school. The trials mean more to the Council and the Teachers than that, and it should mean more to the students too. For everyone's information, I failed my Learners trial bad when I first took it. And Didn't pass until I worked hard for another week SOLID. Then for my Journeyman trial, I wasn't warmed up and I got a dismissal until I was ready the next night because I was so un-prepared. So don't think the "uppper-management" is ANY different from the students. We are all students together, so no one should seperate themselves from that. We are ALL here to learn more and play the game better. So if a JAT says they cant trial you, because they are busy or tired or done 10 trials already, give them a break. Go work on your skills. Come back and ask another day. Just make sure you are still learning new things and "not what I need to pass" like in school. This academy is much different than a normal school. Feel happy and privledged to be here. Show respect to ALL members of the Academy. and May The Force Be With You. This comment was edited by Huxley on Dec 16 2002 03:09pm. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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So I'm first (thus far, unless someone beats me while I type, and I type long)
My thoughts, well, I'll address things one at a time. I agree with the JAT thing. I don't want to be a JAT anytime soon, though. But I do teach a lot (I did an imprompt 3 hour class yesterday, but..) and I have found some that want to make me a JAT as soon as they can. But to make it clear, I like your thoughts on the JAT thing, and I agree. However, for me, I wanted to be a KNIGHT, and I am a KNIGHT, so I want to stay happy being a KNIGHT, and enjoy not being a JAT. From some of what I'm allowed to hear, JAT life can be hell. But I'd enjoy it, but not yet. That being said, appreciate your JATs and JACs. I'll help out when I can, but I went through the ranks fast enough already, so I will not want to keep advancing at break-neck speeds. Many of you are wanting to do exactly that, from Knights on down to initiates. Now, for the flak against JAC integrity. Hmmm...I was in the Air Force, where one of our core values is "Integrity First". I know enough about integrity to write a post that would put all to shame in length and depth. But I will merely leave it at that, and only weigh in with my opinions on JAC integrity if needed. I really wonder where other JATs and JACs are on this. I've really only seen students vs. Silent discussions and flak, and only one other JAT has jumped in on discussion. So my thought, if it's really between Silent and other students, why should Silent be the one to post an address to bring it to an end? I know in most schools, if people have a problem with an instructor or a dean, it is someone ELSE that produces a statement of resolution. NOT the instructor/dean that is being challenged. So, well, I would really like to see a different address done by someone else. Nothing against Silent, obviously, but just in terms of the philosophy that I detailed above. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. This comment was edited by Ulic Belouve on Dec 16 2002 02:48pm. |
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