| Some Interesting Data about the people sending us to war. | |
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Plo Koon - Student  |
Some interesting data about the people sending us to war. Democrats * Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71. * David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72. * Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72. * Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade. * Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam. * Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII. He lost an arm. * John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts. * Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea. * Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam. * Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53. * Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74. * Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91. * Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons. * Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal. * Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit. * Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart. * Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V. * Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star. * Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57 * Chuck Robb: Vietnam * Howell Heflin: Silver Star * George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII. * Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but received #311. * Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy. * Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953 * John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters. * Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg. Republicans * Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage. Seven deferments. Seven. * Dennis Hastert: did not serve. * Tom Delay: did not serve. * Roy Blunt: did not serve. * Bill Frist: did not serve. * Mitch McConnell: did not serve. * Rick Santorum: did not serve. * Trent Lott: did not serve. * John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business. * Jeb Bush: did not serve. * Karl Rove: did not serve. * Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." * Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve. * Vin Weber: did not serve. * Richard Perle: did not serve. * Douglas Feith: did not serve. * Eliot Abrams: did not serve. * Richard Shelby: did not serve. * Jon Kyl: did not serve. * Tim Hutchison: did not serve. * Christopher Cox: did not serve. * Newt Gingrich: did not serve. * Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor. * George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty. * Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies * B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea. * Phil Gramm: did not serve. * John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. * Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve. * John M. McHugh: did not serve. * JC Watts: did not serve. * Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years. * Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard. * Rudy Giuliani: did not serve. * George Pataki: did not serve. * Spencer Abraham: did not serve. * John Engler: did not serve. * Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer. * Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base. Pundits & Preachers * Sean Hannity: did not serve. * Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.') * Bill O'Reilly: did not serve. * Michael Savage: did not serve. * George Will: did not serve. * Chris Matthews: did not serve. * Paul Gigot: did not serve. * Bill Bennett: did not serve. * Pat Buchanan: did not serve. * Bill Kristol: did not serve. * Kenneth Starr: did not serve. * Antonin Scalia: did not serve. * Clarence Thomas: did not serve. * Ralph Reed: did not serve. _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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Terrorists are pouring over the borders into Iraq from Iran and Syria. They're catching them by the dozen almost every day. And I'd rather have our boys fighting them there than trying to figure out which plane they're on here. An open society with a democratic government in Iraq is a prospect that terrifies the totalitarian regimes. That's why they're sending terrorists into Iraq to try to destabilize it and ruin our efforts to help the Iraqi people. One of the few things that prevents these regimes from being overthrown French-Revolution-style (or worse!) by their own people is that they are able to keep their people completely in the dark with radical censorship and state-run newspapers and TV stations. Something like 80% of the people in the Arab world believe that Jews kill children and drink their blood. As long as the totalitarian governments can keep their people convinced that their troubles are the fault of Israel and the United States, those people will direct their anger at us. But once there's a stable, prospering democracy next door to them in Iraq, they will no longer be able to stop the flood of information into their countries...nor the flood of defectors out. This prospect terrifies the extremists, and it's one of the things worth fighting for. Taking the fight to the enemy is a winning strategy. Give 'em hell, boys. [edit/addendum]Oh, and now that it's pretty well documented that Saddam aided al-Queda financially over the years, I don't see why toppling him is not considered part of the war on al-Queda. Bush prefers to call it the war on "terror," of course, which I don't exactly agree with because terror is a tactic, a weapon, like calling the European front in WWII the "war on Panzer tanks" when it was clearly a war on Nazis who happened to use them. Perhaps the war on Islamic extremism would be a better moniker. In any case, there has never been any doubt that Saddam had ties to terrorist groups. Even before we knew if there were al-Queda links we knew this to be the case. This is documented fact going back years. After 9/11 Bush said that we will not distinguish between terrorists and those governments that harbor them--Saddam learned that hard way that we meant it. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. This comment was edited by JavaGuy on Oct 31 2004 01:48am. |
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SaberWeildinKow - Student 
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Quote: You said since the war on Al Qaeda started... I hope you were talking about afghanistan not Iraq,although some Al Qaeda has been coming over to Iraq because we're there. Al Sadr has been there for over 12 years. |
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Plo Koon - Student 
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You said since the war on Al Qaeda started... I hope you were talking about afghanistan not Iraq,although some Al Qaeda has been coming over to Iraq because we're there. _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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There has been very recent legislation introduced to reinstate the draft. By. The. Democrats. Everybody understand now? Congressman Charles Rangel of New York, a Democrat, introduced a bill on January 8th, 2003 to reintroduce the draft. The Republican-controled House of Representatives voted against the bill. Recently the Kerry campaign started talking about Bush's supposed "secret plan" to reintroduce the draft, of which there is absolutely no evidence. Kerry is confused about which party has actually tried to reintroduce the draft since the war on al-Queda began. Interestingly, this is no the first "secret plan" Kerry has accused Bush of having. In recent months Kerry has claimed that Bush has a "secret plan" to: wage nuclear war, cut social services, manipulate oil prices to benefit the Saudis, cut VA Benefits, cut Education Funding, and send jobs overseas, call up more troops after the election and bring back the draft. He has never presented a shred of evidence for any of these secret plans. (Bush actually increased VA benefits, increased education spending by a massive amount--this is actual fact, not a speculative "secret plan."  Kerry himself says that he has a plan to get us out of Iraq, but he won't talk specifics. Says he has a plan to increase spending and balance the budget at the same time without increasing the taxes paid by the middle class, too! How is he going to do that? Again no specifics. Apparently his plans are a secret. I think I know where he gets his ideas about Bush's "secret plans"--psychologists call it Projection, i.e. he "projects" his own personality traits onto others and assumes that the inner thoughts and motivations of others must be similar to his own. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
As far as I know, Arnold isn't exactly the prime example of a republican, either.. |
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Buzz - Student 
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The draft scare was a tactic brought up by 2 democrats in a house bill as a protest against the war. The Republicans forced a vote on it and it failed miserably. Bush and Rumsfeld have both said that there won't be a draft. About the only reason you would need a draft is Kerry's "plan" to increase the army by 40,000 troops. That's about the only tactic that I have heard proposed that might possibly need a draft. You don't magically create 40,000 more troops. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Dicemaster - Student 
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I have heard rumors that Kerry's plan on Iraq, should he become president is something along the lines of sending as much as we possibly can over seas to completely beat the Iraqi people into submission with a quick and powerful strike, thereby getting the US out of there as quickly as possible. I've also heard rumors that in doing so, it would become necessary to draft for homeland security purposes, since all volenteers would be over seas. Please don't flame me for stating this, because i'm not stating fact. I figure theres a lot of ppl here that know more politics then i and maybe can clear up some issues for me since i am an 18 year old about to vote in my first election -Dice _______________ Dicemaster |
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Tido - Student 
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The draft talk is mostly a scare tactic being used by the left. History has proven that drafted armies are not very successful in overseas wars, with the exception of World War II (though until Pearl Harbor the idea of American's going to war was extremely unpopular). Bush knows that the key to a successful military is to have a high-moral volunteer one. Rather than do a draft, it is his position to make the military more appealing through better pay and benefits - thereby increasing recruitment. This is the position he is taking on it. |
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Dicemaster - Student
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I was already planning on voting for bush, but after reading all of these arguments, i'm POSITVE i'm voting for bush. I'm sorry to say this, but I think this election fits the quote "the lesser of two evils" I honestly don't think either of these men are Great candidates. But i think the lesser of the two evils is Bush for sure. As long as its getting political, can any of you post any info about the Draft. There has been talk of it being reinstated and talk of it not, and it scares me a lot knowing that I am prime for that (18 and in resonably good condition.) Not that I would be a draft dodger, because trust me I wouldn't....I'm just not military material. -Dice _______________ Dicemaster |
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JavaGuy - Student
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Delete---I read the first part of what Kow wrote and jumped the gun. Mea culpa. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. This comment was edited by JavaGuy on Oct 30 2004 04:39am. |
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SaberWeildinKow - Student 
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Quote: these aren't urban legend emails,its data about our so called leaders. If it isn't a random e-mail, mind giving me the link to where you found this list? |
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Tallepyon - Student 
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No offense but you are biased Plo and this is biased information. And the information you posted is not proportional. I am almost sure more republicans leaders were in military than democrats. Having Arnold on there is crazy too. He left a communist country and you criticize it. That isnt right =/ This comment was edited by Tallepyon on Oct 30 2004 02:48am. |
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SaberWeildinKow - Student
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Javaguy, Buzz, I really think you need to tone it down. JK  Actually guys thanks a lot for showing me some facts I wasn't aware of. When we debated this on the politics conference at school, it was rather difficult without a few of these. Plo, I respect you man, but I think you're just going to have to give this one to Java, Buzz, and Ultimately Bush. Anyway, off to the politics conference  |
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solitude - Jedi Council 
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*Sigh* Where was this data from? The democrat website? :  _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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Tido - Student 
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Quote: War makes me sad.  Yeah, so does slander. |
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Buzz - Student
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Ah......Truth what an amazing concept. http://grunt.space.swri.edu/housevet.htm Here is a website listing the members of the House of Representatives that are Veterans. If you take a count on the numbers you will find: 57 Republicans served in the military 43 Democrats served in the military http://grunt.space.swri.edu/senatevet.htm This website lists the Senators who have served. Their numbers are: 19 Republicans served 16 Democrats served 1 Independent served One of those Democrats is Zel Miller who supports Bush. That gives in Congress: 76 Republicans 59 Democrats Those are what you call facts. And those are straight forward. You might also want to include that John Ashcroft has a son serving in the Navy. That was stationed in the Persian Gulf at least in the summer. So maybe you should also list Congressmen who have sons, nephews, and brothers who have served and are serving in the military. Here is a bit on Bush's service record: http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/2004/06/fahrenheit-fact-no-13-bushs-air.html _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Buzz - Student 
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Quote: these aren't urban legend emails,its data about our so called leaders. No its political double speak and fact manipulation. If it was only about our leaders you wouldn't be listing conservative reporters and also spinning it to make it seem like Clinton legitimately didn't serve in the military, and making it sound like Bush was AWOL his entire time. How about listing how Kerry met with enemy whille still being under enlistment. Also using Jimmy Carter as an example is as big of a joke as his presidency was. Show me the military service records of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Alan Colmes. Also include Bob Dole, and George H.W. Bush. Or else admit you're trying to twist facts to suit your purposes and shut up. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Plo Koon - Student 
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these aren't urban legend emails,its data about our so called leaders. _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too |
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Sared - Retired 
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Quote: I'd consider it a huge advance if people would stop basing their arguments on easily refuted "facts" from urban legend e-mails. That alone would raise the level of debate about a dozen notches. But then, I have this crazy fascination with getting the facts right. x3 _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. |
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Duffman - Student 
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Quote: I'd consider it a huge advance if people would stop basing their arguments on easily refuted "facts" from urban legend e-mails. That alone would raise the level of debate about a dozen notches. But then, I have this crazy fascination with getting the facts right. x2 _______________ *Sigh* Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone |
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DJK - Student 
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Quote: War makes me sad. |
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JavaGuy - Student
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I'd consider it a huge advance if people would stop basing their arguments on easily refuted "facts" from urban legend e-mails. That alone would raise the level of debate about a dozen notches. But then, I have this crazy fascination with getting the facts right. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Duffman - Student 
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@ all There is one way that making any polital point should be made. Quietly and calmly. Very unlike the past SEVERAL (not just g.w's) elections. So i ask this to all of you- Why allows yourself to get angry and make the point that you feel is valid carry less weight? ~and on a side note~ ONE of the groups that you forgot to mention that carry weight as far as the media, and through the media, politics, is celebraties. You ALSO might want to include the amount of schooling all those involved have completed. You might be surprised. Then think about some of the coments everyone that we have seen plasterd all over the tv and radio and our entire nation have said over the past few elections. and anyone carring for my 2 cents- Both the candidates have thier pro's and con's. If the world was perfect, government wouldnt be needed. The main problem with our (US) government is that it has failed to grow with the rest of the population, and by grow i mean ideals and in complexity. And dont bother trying to sway my vote, i already voted. absente voting is a wonderfull thing. _______________ *Sigh* Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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War makes me sad. _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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JavaGuy - Student
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Quote: JavaGuy my father joined the Army National Guard when it wasn't trying to avoid a war,He joined when it didn't matter wether you where in the army or NG,Both went to war. That was true during Vietnam too, as I've already pointed out. Some of the heaviest casualties were taken by Guard units, and in fact many in the Guard complained that they were used as cannon fodder because the command didn't value them as much as the other services. A guy signing up for the Guard really didn't know if he was going to war or not, as Bush didn't know when he trained to be a fighter pilot. So quit pretending that signing up for the Guard was avoiding service. It wasn't and isn't. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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