[14:04] the channel stays moderated.. when someone wants to speak theyll get a +v [14:05] so we can keep the meeting orderly [14:05] * Lightbrinmger (none@24.157.40.198) Quit (Quit: 07« 14Ë×Ç07ü14®§îöñ 07» 14Info07-[15v9.4.207]- 14Released07-[15August 10, 200207]- 14Channel07-[15#Excursion on Dal.Net07]-) [14:05] * Lightbrinmger (none@24.157.40.198) has left #ja_meeting [14:05] Students: you guys are invited to watch so you can see how we work and the kinds of decisions we make and stuff like that [14:05] its kinda like how US citizens can watch congress sessions from the balcony [14:05] heh [14:06] so without any further doo-doo... [14:06] and the best part is,you may see one of us beat another of us with a cane, like in the US senate back in the civil war :) [14:06] * DJ_Sith changes topic to '1st item: The 'Trials Academy'' [14:06] hahah thats true [14:06] * Johnny-Rico (none@24.157.68.160) has joined #ja_meeting [14:06] 1st up: the trials academy [14:07] ranks were put in to give the students something to strive for.. a reward for class and practice [14:07] trials are here to test student knowledge.. [14:07] but lately its SO out of hand [14:07] all you JATs know what im talking about :) [14:07] we need to become focused on classes and instruction 1st and rank advancement 2nd [14:08] * ``Kalla (none@172.186.50.222) has joined #ja_meeting [14:08] We need ideas on how to bring this about [14:08] I thought that maybe we can only hold trials on one day of the week or only at trial classes [14:08] * Charon (Charon@12.252.84.244) has joined #ja_meeting [14:08] Ulic Belouve had a cool idea where the JATs mark when a student actually ATTENDS their class [14:09] and a student needs to have taken so many classes to be able to trial.. to make sure they wont just trial and fail [14:09] i can alter the website to keep track of this [14:09] * stephen (~stephen@24.157.40.198) has joined #ja_meeting [14:09] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v JumpinJedi [14:09] :D [14:09] Ok [14:09] This is my suggestion [14:09] * stephen (~stephen@24.157.40.198) has left #ja_meeting [14:10] * Lightbringer (~stephen@24.157.40.198) has joined #ja_meeting [14:10] Perhaps DJ could make something for the JAKs and above to see when their logged in when they see a students site profile.. [14:10] Where it gives a number of classes attended. [14:10] Which are added by the teacher who teaches, by ticking people who show up on the class roster (or something) [14:10] There, my two cents ! [14:10] VIVA LA JJ ! [14:10] * JumpinJedi splutters. [14:11] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v JumpinJedi [14:11] uh, isn't that what DJ was talking about :) [14:11] hehe yeah [14:11] this will make more work for the JATs though [14:11] way to go turbo genius :) [14:11] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v Datheus [14:11] heheh [14:11] Well, like you were saying.. [14:12] Adding some sort of check the box mechanism to the classes page [14:12] Whatever [14:12] And work it just like the Knight trial [14:12] you don't even get the link to apply until you're toggled [14:12] Make it the same for classes [14:12] Hell, maybe we should even make JAT/C toggable for the other ranks [14:12] hmm so you want a toggle for learner and journeyman? [14:12] Rather then students attacking us [14:12] Because if we make it so they need a set amount of call [14:13] class* [14:13] We'll move from trial mania [14:13] To class mania [14:13] Or.. whatever [14:13] woohoo, class mania [14:13] a principal's dream [14:13] and a print class roster feature would be kinda handy [14:13] but class mania is my goal :) [14:13] * massadoobie[JAC] sets mode: +v JumpinJedi [14:13] so we can stay in full screen mode [14:13] Well, yea [14:13] But... [14:13] But is it your goal to have students harrass us for more classes? [14:13] At the same time, we're trying to reduce the JAT workload by a bit [14:14] we have hundreds of students [14:14] between aprox. 20 JATs and JAKs... [14:14] thats alot of toggling. [14:14] hows about this.. [14:14] a student attends your class [14:15] JATs write down who attended [14:15] * massadoobie[JAC] sets mode: -v JumpinJedi [14:15] * massadoobie[JAC] sets mode: -v Datheus [14:15] go to their profile pages [14:15] and click a link or button that records that they attended a class [14:15] and that will increment their class number by one [14:15] * massadoobie[JAC] sets mode: +v JAcen_Solo [14:16] ok, then you set a certain amuont of points to each rank trial ? [14:16] and it changes automatically ? [14:16] right.. like 3 for learner.. 10 for jman [14:16] something like that [14:16] oo I like that [14:16] * Silent-sniper (academyweb@64.229.137.85) has left #ja_meeting [14:17] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v Buccaneer_Aayla [14:17] and for the students who dont need classes maybe we can add extra points of our own [14:17] Also, notice that there are different level classes... [14:17] remmeber guys last meeting we agreed on that hole class for trials thing, its not new [14:17] Beginner, advanced, etc... [14:17] only aayla nad hux did it [14:17] he has a point [14:17] Perhaps offer 2 points for an advanced class, and 1 for a beginner... [14:17] i honly got to do it after i got some knights to help [14:17] * massadoobie[JAC] sets mode: +v JumpinJedi [14:17] maybe add a "level of class" when creating the class [14:17] Ah [14:17] but see [14:18] the students dont need us doing everything for them [14:18] I think they should be able to decide for themselves if they are ready for a particular class or not. [14:18] c1: ui can add that.. a new student suggested that to me last night :) [14:18] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v Buccaneer_Aayla [14:18] DJ [14:18] what do you mean JJ? [14:19] cool [14:19] * massadoobie[JAC] sets mode: -v JAcen_Solo [14:19] If they think they're ready for an advanced class, let them. [14:19] i don't think we're placing limits on which classes people take... [14:19] If they struggle, they'll learn to go down a notch, or maybe the teacher could help them [14:19] just making it mandatory to actually take them for promotions [14:19] yeah yeah :P [14:19] I get ya. [14:19] And another thing [14:19] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v Huxley_ [14:19] I would like to limit the people that come to advanced classes [14:20] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v Huxley_ [14:20] Good one huxley. [14:20] and DJ [14:20] about writing down students who showed and adding a point, or whatever.. [14:20] wouldn't it be easier to just make a button or something on the actual class page ? [14:21] next to each name, for example [14:21] i can do that.. the problem is the class roster automatically clears when the class is over [14:21] click those who showed [14:21] Then set it so that they stay for JATs for an hour or so. [14:21] ;) [14:21] Magra PM'ed me with a good point [14:21] It would encourage students to actually enroll in classes [14:22] because alot of students just show and take the place of those who no-show. [14:22] right [14:22] without enrolling. [14:22] its not fair for the students that want to take the class and cant get in cause the roster being full [14:22] :( [14:22] so make it so you can't get the "point" unless you enrolled in the class? [14:22] i agree with c1 [14:22] well yeah [14:23] right [14:23] but what usually happens is a student will tell the JAT before class [14:23] so they should just remove them [14:23] Jacen says we should decrement a point for students that dont attend, yet enroll [14:23] (unless they have a good excuse) [14:23] I agree [14:23] Yeah, I agree. [14:23] but then we'll have to deal with lame excuses all the time [14:23] Erm...am I some kind of special case that gets voice all the time ? :) [14:23] "my dog at my cd" [14:23] lol [14:23] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v JumpinJedi [14:24] "no fair, i deserve the point still, my cow pooped on myu computer and it wouldn't load" [14:24] we can make it like they do in college... [14:24] hmm [14:24] ok [14:24] how about if they enroll and attend, 1 point(or 2 or whatever for advanced)... [14:24] sounds good [14:24] he ...'ed :) [14:25] if they enroll, but dont attend, yet have a somewhat plausible excuse (bro was using the computer, jk2 cd broken) no points [14:25] if they enroll and dont attend and just say they fergot or something or sont say anything at all [14:25] 5 classes for learner, 10 for jman? [14:25] -1 pt [14:25] students can also remove themselves from the roster.. this would encourage them to remove themselves if they cant make it [14:26] (thx Jace :)) [14:26] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v Huxley_ [14:26] ok... [14:26] I think prehaps we should create learner/jman/knight classes [14:26] how about if it's a -1 no matter what if you're on the roster and you don't attend... forces them to actually pay attention to signing up for classes [14:26] like different levels [14:26] beginners/intermediate/advanced, and make people follow that order [14:26] to achieve the best training [14:27] I have had several people show up to my advanced class w/o taking the first 2 [14:27] and I made 3 for dat reason [14:27] hux: that'll take alot of class rewriting on may part.. and i want the school to remain an open system :/ [14:27] so they have a week between each class [14:27] to really learn and work with the stuff from the class [14:27] and not rush through anything [14:27] k [14:27] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v Huxley_ [14:27] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v Datheus [14:27] Jj has a good point [14:28] Why am I voice? [14:28] +d [14:28] * cHoSeN-oNe sets mode: +v JumpinJedi [14:28] :o [14:28] you asked for it [14:28] yeah [14:28] Like 5 minutes ago [14:28] heh or not :) [14:28] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v Datheus [14:28] Would the current trials and exams be void if all of these ideas were put into action ? [14:28] hmm [14:28] Personally, if so, that'd be quite unfair, because most people put alot of effort into their exams. [14:28] yeah that would be unfair [14:28] no, it would just require them to actually attend classes [14:29] you don't have to have a trial pending to earn point [14:29] what do you mean? [14:30] well i just don't see what impact this has on the actual exams and trials... you can turn in your exam whenever, you just have to "earn" the trial... the actual trial itself doesn't change [14:30] but you can't take it until you've earned your points... which youc an be earning at anytime [14:30] * cHoSeN-oNe sets mode: -v JumpinJedi [14:31] it'd be easier to write into the website to make it so they cant even exam till theyve met their point level [14:31] DJ: cant there be a way to hack the points required [14:32] if someone was that desperate I mena [14:32] i suppose if they had access to the site database.. hacked a JAT password.. or knew my code [14:32] the site passwords are 1 way encrypted.. even i cant get them in plain text [14:32] oh...slick [14:33] cool...nm then [14:33] :) [14:33] hmm [14:33] so lets come up with a verdict for this [14:33] of course, all this talk about mandatory classes, and differentiating between advanced and beginner for trials will only serve to create a run on advanced classes... [14:33] and students will spam the classes... [14:33] oh hey what about trials only on a certain day or at trials classes? [14:34] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v JumpinJedi [14:34] first thing [14:34] either that or give the JATs/JAKs a special tag when they're willing to do trials [14:34] DJ, if theres a suspicion of cheating the points system, investigations and official warnings come into play, right ? :P [14:34] and secondly, I say we have trials on weekends. [14:34] jj of course [14:35] in the weekdays, JATs tend to just take their classes and do paperwork [14:35] we could concentrate on trials on the weekend [14:35] that sounds cool to me [14:35] (Saturday/Sunday) [14:35] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v JumpinJedi [14:35] that works for me [14:35] ok [14:35] * cHoSeN-oNe sets mode: +v JAcen_Solo [14:36] can i make a suggestion on how to migrate the actual trial ? [14:36] *trials ? [14:36] you mean the current trials? [14:36] yes [14:36] k [14:37] i say clear them all, but you autmatically add the points for the jmans [14:37] hmm [14:37] that way its a fresh start to everyone and guys with learner done can start working for jman [14:37] i was going to add points based on current rank [14:37] lol, ok then my bad [14:37] like all current learners automatically get 5 points, all current jmen get 10 [14:37] i'd say do that rather than clear everything [14:38] cool [14:38] then they wont have to retake exams :) [14:38] i do have a problemw ith the scale for class-levels... [14:38] why add points for learner ? [14:38] oh and i cant make it on weekends, thats when i do most of my real life stuff [14:39] * cHoSeN-oNe sets mode: -v JAcen_Solo [14:39] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v JumpinJedi [14:39] ::gasps for air:: [14:39] anyway [14:39] La Magra has inspired me with this. [14:40] the new guys will dive into ranks, which will mean a need for points right ? [14:40] so initiates who dont know what a backstab is will go to advanced classes, and not have a clue whats going on [14:40] so I say we should have advanced classes open to learners only. [14:40] Thanks for the inspiration, magra :) [14:40] interesting... [14:40] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v JumpinJedi [14:41] nah i dont want to limit who can take what class [14:41] i want to keep the student options as open as possible [14:41] that's why i'm saying make all classes worth the same [14:41] ok cool [14:41] who's to say that hux's beginner's classes are any better or worse than yun's rp classes? [14:41] it's all too arbitrary [14:42] yeah but if they do "tours with Zero" 5 times, then that doesnt really prove anything [14:42] no offense to Zero of course [14:42] well we can have some 0-point classes like a tour class, or an rp class [14:42] cool [14:42] sounds ggood to me [14:42] ccool [14:43] easy fix :) [14:43] ok so i guess we agree on the point system [14:43] so sum it up for us dj, i know you're keeping track of all this [14:43] the next thing to decide is how many points per rank? [14:43] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v JumpinJedi [14:44] yeesh jj :P [14:44] Well [14:44] two things :) [14:44] Hey, at least im using what little brain power I can muster man lol [14:44] two things [14:44] first [14:44] for these fun classes such as Zeros field trips and the RP's [14:44] I say that we have two types of class [14:44] Educational, and Fun [14:44] or something similar [14:44] second...rank point requirements. [14:45] I say 4 for learner and 10 for Journeyman [14:45] and 18 for knight :) [14:45] hmmm [14:45] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v JumpinJedi [14:45] at least 3 for learner [14:45] i honestly dont' know how many people take how many classes, so i'm trusting you guys [14:45] i'd say at least 4 for learner... MAYBE 5 [14:46] 2000 for JAT [14:46] jk [14:46] 20000000000 for JAC [14:46] :P [14:46] one.. hundres.. BILLION [14:46] hundred* [14:46] * cHoSeN-oNe puts pinky to mouth [14:46] and remember... if it's 4 for learner and 10 for jman, that's only 6 more classes that learners have to take for jman [14:47] boss, tell them i say that there should be diferent points per class, exmple: a guy attends but didnt get anything out of the class. He should get less points than a guy that learned a lot [14:47] what about more rounded numbers [14:47] there Jacen, i told em :) [14:47] like 5, 10 [14:47] 25 for JAK [14:47] jace: thats REAL hard to determine [14:47] i agree [14:47] i like 5, 10, 25 [14:47] works for me [14:48] or maybe 5 12 25, make jman ~halfway to knight [14:48] 5, 15, 25 [14:48] ? [14:48] 5 24 25 :) [14:48] 10 point spread [14:48] well i wanna make the gap between jman and knight bigger than learner and jman [14:49] hmm... [14:49] 5 12, 25? [14:49] i vote yay [14:49] yeah I suppose [14:49] ok cool [14:50] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v Datheus [14:50] yeesh my mirc bar is lit up like a damned xmas tree :) [14:50] Do we even have 25 classes for one student to take [14:50] 25 classes over time [14:50] still [14:51] maybe 25 is a bit big... [14:51] Do we have 25 different classes over time to offer? [14:51] well, we still have to talk about the Knight admin powers [14:52] c1: wait :P [14:52] * Lightbringer (~stephen@24.157.40.198) has left #ja_meeting [14:52] k [14:52] so how about 5, 10, 20? [14:52] done, moving on :) [14:53] ok so lemme recap [14:53] a) trials will only occur on the weekends [14:53] b) we are adding a point system to the users database... one point is added per class attended.. this will be clickable from the class roster page on the site by the JAT.. [14:54] if a class is enrolled for or not attended the student loses a point (unless they have a good excuse in which case they gain nore lose points) [14:54] i disagree with trials on weekends [14:54] im going to ass class_level and class_type fields to the classes db so only certain classes will earn points (eg not rp and tour classes) [14:55] we gotta be able to readjust it as well, just in case they dont say their excuse till later [14:55] JACs will get direct access to the point system [14:55] here's my proposal on giving trials... JATs are highly recommended to hold trial classes where all you do are trials... [14:56] when not in class, JATs and JAKs should have a special tag that lets people know they're not doing trials... like [JAT-O] for off-duty [14:56] or just without the tag [14:56] ? [14:57] that sounds good.. some JATs arent available during the weekends anyways [14:57] so strongly reccomend they only trial during classes, and turn the tag off if theyre off duty? [14:58] no, strongly recommend they do trial-only classes... but they're free to do trials whenever they are up to it [14:58] works for me [14:58] w00t! [14:58] aayla raises a point about knights and the class numbering [14:59] since knights have to get nominated, they may feel resentment after going through the 25 classes [15:00] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v Datheus [15:00] any opinonos on this? [15:00] * Arcuss{JAPingmaster} (~WiilieWon@65.196.120.194) Quit (Quit: Ve Vant the money Lebowski, You can't huet me I believes in NOSSING) [15:00] * Arcuss{JAPingmaster} (~WiilieWon@65.196.120.194) has left #ja_meeting [15:00] what if they're no "point" level for knights [15:00] since they're nominated [15:00] that would make it easier on me to code :) [15:00] hehe [15:00] once a student becomes a jman he becomes knight eligible [15:01] maybe they should not be nominated till they accru 20 pts.? [15:01] nah they still need a jat to toggle eligibility [15:01] well, eligible to be eligible i mean [15:01] ohhh ok :) [15:01] or just make 20 points or so a minimum for nomination to make sure they keep taking classes [15:02] sounds good.. the eligibility system works well i think [15:02] dude [15:02] we've spent an hour on one subject [15:02] can we PLEASE move on ? [15:03] * massadoobie[JAC] whacks JumpinJedi upside his thick scottish head [15:03] ok, lets move on [15:03] :) [15:03] ok so 20 points to nomination, or no points? [15:03] 20 [15:03] k [15:03] * DJ_Sith changes topic to '2nd: Evidence ahndling' [15:03] * DJ_Sith changes topic to '2nd: Evidence handling' [15:03] * massadoobie[JAC] changes topic to '2nd: Evidence handling and Touch Typing' [15:03] this comes around whom that whole shadowsith fiasco [15:03] haw haw [15:04] for those that arent familiar ill igve the short story [15:04] i start getting reports about knight privs on the server bieng used by non knights and lots of knight abusal [15:04] i also get word that shadowsith was giving out the knight password [15:05] and ppl tell me they have evidence to back it up.. i trust them in that because JATs tell me this [15:05] you guys are our eyes and ears :) [15:05] well i ban ss and he comes by saying he has no idea whats going on [15:05] * Arcuss{JAPingmaster} (~WiilieWon@12.172.241.104) has joined #ja_meeting [15:05] me, zero, and hux our over server logs and find no evidence of admin abuse, or bad behaviour by ss [15:06] so ss is let back in and i make a big public apology... [15:06] what disturbs me is that the screenshots i was sent were spurious evidence at best [15:06] and promised demos of admin abuse never showed up [15:06] au contraire on that one [15:06] not the one ulic sent :) [15:07] well get to that later [15:07] ah, gotcha :) [15:07] but demos of ss doing bad things never showed up [15:07] and i and some JATS spent a few hours pouring over server ogs to clear ss's name [15:07] logs* [15:07] my point is [15:07] if someone wants to report someone.. get CONCRETE evidence [15:08] somehting that is definately true [15:08] demos are good [15:08] screecshots with the console open to see recent text is good too [15:08] bvecause going over logs is a BITCH :) [15:08] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v JumpinJedi [15:08] aight [15:09] I concur with DJ [15:09] I mean, im sure alot of the JATs, like me follow a "No evidence - no reprimand" policy [15:09] but screenshots without the console dont say much [15:09] I mean give me thirty minutes, and I could have a picture of datheus sabering charon [15:09] they're easily staged [15:10] but with the console, they're alot more reliable [15:10] and demos are pretty solid, although if there are a bunch of people, they can be staged [15:10] its just up to the investigators keen eye...not as if anyone has as keen an eye as me :) [15:10] ok, done :) [15:10] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v JumpinJedi [15:11] ok that's a quick point.. moving on unless theres objections [15:11] ok [15:11] GO [15:11] * DJ_Sith changes topic to '3rd: JACs' [15:11] This is some sad news [15:11] :) [15:12] but i guess its good in a way... [15:12] Silent Whisper is off to school and has left the JA. Per her wishes I'm not making a news post about it, but the best of luck to her. [15:13] I just wanted ya'll to know why she's going to be off the JAC list on the about us page [15:13] and the footer on the website (note to DJ) [15:13] oh yeah [15:13] Chosen one's going to stay a JAC [15:13] and Avalon is now head trainer [15:14] w00t [15:14] as for the community liasion title.. what do you think, chosen? [15:14] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v JumpinJedi [15:14] i swear i need a button that voices jj [15:14] Ok..first, congradulations to Chosen... [15:14] ::snickers:: [15:14] anyway [15:14] about Avalon.. [15:14] this is just an opinion [15:14] YEYYYYY [15:14] i agree with what he's about tos ay [15:15] but hes not really around alot...which worries me in a way, but I mean, he teaches, which is good for a lead trainer [15:15] but he doesn't do much JACly stuff, besides tourney stuff and the likes. [15:15] * DJ_Sith sets mode: +v JAcen_Solo [15:15] But if the guy has RL issues, thats understandable [15:15] * JumpinJedi is done. [15:15] it seems like when we promote people to JAC they end up being around LESS [15:15] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v JumpinJedi [15:16] the JAC curse :) [15:16] well I agree that Av is not around much, but he is themost qualifyed from us all to be the lead treiner [15:17] not me [15:17] and im not refering to fighting skils [15:17] well i say we give him the job until he doesn't deserve it [15:18] if we ar going to base that decision on fighting skills we would have a new head trainer every week [15:18] i agrees with doob [15:19] * DJ_Sith sets mode: -v JAcen_Solo [15:19]